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Thread: No more membership extras for resale purchases

  1. #1
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    No more membership extras for resale purchases

    I got a letter from Ken Potrock via the "Notifications" that beginning April 4,2016, those who purchase resale will not be eligible for ANY membership extras. Anyone who purchased resale before that is not affected (except for the booking exclusions on Certain "Collections" in place since March 2011). Basically, any current member is unaffected except the value of our contracts is probably less now. The buyers' market has now changed. First time buyers have little incentive to test the waters with a resale contract.
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  2. #2
    Member DVC Mike's Avatar
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    In an announcement today, Ken Potrock (DVC SVP) announced new restrictions to benefits available to resale purchasers after today – including discounts on dining, shopping, and access to member-exclusive events.

    DVC announces new benefit restrictions to resales buyers
    DVC Mike

  3. #3
    wishes he had a pink frolicing llama under his tagline George's Avatar
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    Do the new DVC member ID cards include a magnetic strip for identification purchases? I don't have mine in front of me right now.
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    Interesting. It would be a huge factor for us, that's for sure. We seriously considered DVC in the next 2 years and had thought resale would be our best option but this sure changes things.
    However, the only discount we'd be interested in would be the discount to purchase an AP. I suppose this would be removed too? Once we had an AP we wouldn't need the other discounts anyway.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by George View Post
    Do the new DVC member ID cards include a magnetic strip for identification purchases? I don't have mine in front of me right now.
    No. But all they have to do is not issue cards to first time purchasers from the resale market. You need your card to get any discount.
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  6. #6
    the jeweled acrobats only perform amazing stunts for him DopeyRunr's Avatar
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    This is disappointing as an owner to see the value of our ownership interest devalued. We calculated at least a few years or savings on annual passes into our buying decision for a small resale contract, and it probably tipped the scales in favor of buying for us. Without that incentive (or any other discount) it makes buying resale less attractive and if demand drops, so does price.

    I understand that I didn't buy this as an investment, and I don't plan on selling any time soon, but that doesn't mean I can't be frustrated to see a single decision by management directly decrease the value of something I own.
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  7. #7
    wishes he had a pink frolicing llama under his tagline George's Avatar
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    The buyers will ultimately determine the market, so even though a resale will have less value, it may still be a good proposition compared to what Disney decides to set its price at. Maybe they'll start buying more through ROFR? Who knows?

    And how about deeds that are gifted or transferred through Quit Claims? Count the latter be a way around this new reality?
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  8. #8
    the jeweled acrobats only perform amazing stunts for him DopeyRunr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by George View Post
    The buyers will ultimately determine the market, so even though a resale will have less value, it may still be a good proposition compared to what Disney decides to set its price at.
    It will almost certainly still be a MUCH better financial outcome for most families to buy resale. You need to lose a LOT of $50-$100/AP discounts over a lot of years to make up for the thousands of dollars you'll save buying resale. But it's still a decision that makes a DVC contract worth *something* less than it did yesterday, and for that, I'm disappointed.
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  9. #9
    Senior Member simbasmom's Avatar
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    What about the many people, like us, who have multiple contracts, some bought through resale, one bought through Disney? Hopefully, as long as we have one contract through DVC, we get the discounts. Also, are current members "grandfathered"-exempt from these new restrictions?

  10. #10
    the jeweled acrobats only perform amazing stunts for him DopeyRunr's Avatar
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    Yes, existing members will see no loss of benefits. I believe that all new members will need going forward is one contract purchased direct, which will entitle them to membership perks. Additional contracts purchased through resale wouldn't disqualify them from those perks.
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  11. #11
    Senior Member cdmurphy727's Avatar
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    Any idea how this will affect those who rent points for their resort stay? If at all?

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by cdmurphy727 View Post
    Any idea how this will affect those who rent points for their resort stay? If at all?
    No change. Renters and guests were not entitled to any of these discounts before this, and those are the only changes.

  13. #13
    the jeweled acrobats only perform amazing stunts for him DopeyRunr's Avatar
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    Agreed. I don't think it will change the availability or price of points for rental, and renters never had access to those perks anyway.
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    Senior Member CJG17's Avatar
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    Wow. This is scary timing for my purchase, and I'm having trouble confirming what date the "grandfathered in" contracts take effect. I read the article, and I see that as of April 4, these changes take effect, so that makes me think think that I'm out of luck because as of April 4, I am not officially a DVC member (no number, no card). However, I do still have some hope to be grandfathered-in because our purchase was made over a month ago, and Disney has already waived ROFR (it took them the whole 30 days, but they did finally waive it). But our contract is still, as of today, not fulfilled. On 3/29 we got the notice that ROFR is waived, and it said that Disney will issue the estoppel 20-30 days from then, and after that the title company will send us the closing documents. So I seem to be in this limbo period since on April 4, I was not a member, but the Disney had approved the process starting. Hoping to be grandfathered in, especially since we agreed on the price when the benefits were included. I see the point that of course I would still buy resale rather than buying from Disney directly. But those aren't the only options, I might have chosen to not buy DVC at all ....or at least wait to buy to see if re-sale prices drop with this change in benefits.

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    In a thread on MouseOwners on the subject, it was reported that any contract received by DVC for review before 4/4 is grandfathered in. I am not sure if it is true, but the person reported that this was confirmed by their broker who contacted DVC on their behalf.
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  16. #16
    Senior Member cdmurphy727's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bnoble View Post
    No change. Renters and guests were not entitled to any of these discounts before this, and those are the only changes.
    Quote Originally Posted by DopeyRunr View Post
    Agreed. I don't think it will change the availability or price of points for rental, and renters never had access to those perks anyway.
    Makes sense.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3dadknight View Post
    In a thread on MouseOwners on the subject, it was reported that any contract received by DVC for review before 4/4 is grandfathered in. I am not sure if it is true, but the person reported that this was confirmed by their broker who contacted DVC on their behalf.

    Thanks 3dadknight. Our broker just confirmed the same info, that we are grandfathered in. I guess that makes it official, but I'm going to want it in writing in the contract before we give them the big check (not that it will matter much though, because I imagine we would lose our deposit if we backed out now). But I am very happy to hear we are grandfathered in because I do want to use some of those discounts!

  18. #18
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    Just as a side note: the discounts really don't amount to much unless you routinely expect to buy APs for a family---and even then, as noted above, it will take a very long time to make back the difference between most resale and direct purchases.

    In other words, as with most other timeshare systems that differentiates between direct and resale purchases, the differences are inconsequential to the decision of either/or.

  19. #19
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    If you *are* someone who could make routine use of the Gold AP (not visiting over Christmas or Easter Weeks), and you aren't a Florida resident, it probably makes sense to buy most of what you need resale, and then once you are a member, get a minimum add-on of 25 points to qualify your account. You're saving $180-200+ per person per pass vs. a Platinum. For a family of four, you'll make back the spread fairly quickly.

  20. #20
    Member DVC Mike's Avatar
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    As I stated in my Do DVC Members deserve better perks post, perks offered by DVD are a marketing tactic to entice people to buy into DVC. From a marketing perspective, DVD needs to provide some differentiation between buying direct and buying resale. There has to be some justification for the price variance between direct and resale. Clearly, the changes they made in 2011 have been deemed not effective enough. We have seen direct point sales decline over the past year, and this is a plain and simple marketing tactic to increase the value of a direct purchase over a resale purchase. Guides must be jumping up and down with excitement for this new sales tool.

    DVD is a business, and it exists to sell. Perks are a marketing tool to help sell. The primary reason for DVC to offer perks is to help improve sales by Disney Vacation Development. Offering perks to all members does increase their goodwill towards Disney and increases the positive word of mouth about DVC from current members to their friends and family. A lot of happy members providing positive word of mouth advertising would be a good marketing tool. So, it's good for business - to a certain extent. However, in this case, DVD decided it's direct sales would be better enhanced by differentiating it more from resales.
    DVC Mike

  21. #21
    the jeweled acrobats only perform amazing stunts for him DopeyRunr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bnoble View Post
    In other words, as with most other timeshare systems that differentiates between direct and resale purchases, the differences are inconsequential to the decision of either/or.
    It depends. If you're talking about a 160 point contract, then maybe. If you're talking about a 25 point resale contract at $85/point, that's a $2,125 purchase. If I'm saving $200 on an annual pass (difference between Platinum pass and DVC-eligible Gold pass) and I have 4 family members, that $800 savings is EXTREMELY consequential. Even for a 100 point contract ($8,500 purchase) if I can save $800/year for at least a year or two (and probably longer), that's huge. The 25 point contract "pays for itself" in three years. The 100 point contract is significantly subsidized.

    On the other hand, if my only choice is to go direct for that 100 point contract, the $15,000 cost is so much higher that the discounted AP hardly makes a dent. And I'm not sure if they're offering 100 point contracts to start or if you need to go with 160 points.

    So I think the either/or discussion is still valid. But also, now, moot.
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  22. #22
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    Hence my post above about the right way to qualify an account for the Gold Pass eligibility: buy most of what you need resale, and then once you are a Member buy a 25pt direct contract to qualify the account. A little more than you'd pay otherwise, but a family of four makes that back in about two pass cycles, give or take.

  23. #23
    Senior Member Micah008's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CJG17 View Post
    Wow. This is scary timing for my purchase, and I'm having trouble confirming what date the "grandfathered in" contracts take effect. I read the article, and I see that as of April 4, these changes take effect, so that makes me think think that I'm out of luck because as of April 4, I am not officially a DVC member (no number, no card). However, I do still have some hope to be grandfathered-in because our purchase was made over a month ago, and Disney has already waived ROFR (it took them the whole 30 days, but they did finally waive it). But our contract is still, as of today, not fulfilled. On 3/29 we got the notice that ROFR is waived, and it said that Disney will issue the estoppel 20-30 days from then, and after that the title company will send us the closing documents. So I seem to be in this limbo period since on April 4, I was not a member, but the Disney had approved the process starting. Hoping to be grandfathered in, especially since we agreed on the price when the benefits were included. I see the point that of course I would still buy resale rather than buying from Disney directly. But those aren't the only options, I might have chosen to not buy DVC at all ....or at least wait to buy to see if re-sale prices drop with this change in benefits.
    Quote Originally Posted by CJG17 View Post
    Thanks 3dadknight. Our broker just confirmed the same info, that we are grandfathered in. I guess that makes it official, but I'm going to want it in writing in the contract before we give them the big check (not that it will matter much though, because I imagine we would lose our deposit if we backed out now). But I am very happy to hear we are grandfathered in because I do want to use some of those discounts!
    I immediately thought of you when I saw this news today.

    I agree with what 3dadknight reported, best I can tell everywhere I have read, as long as you had already submitted for ROFR you will be grandfathered in. I too would try to get something in writing though just to be safe.
    Micah

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  24. #24
    the jeweled acrobats only perform amazing stunts for him DopeyRunr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bnoble View Post
    Hence my post above about the right way to qualify an account for the Gold Pass eligibility: buy most of what you need resale, and then once you are a Member buy a 25pt direct contract to qualify the account. A little more than you'd pay otherwise, but a family of four makes that back in about two pass cycles, give or take.
    Yeah that's a great strategy. I wonder how many people would think of that or even realize they could do that.

  25. #25
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    Let's just say that working timeshare angles is a hobby of mine. And am far from the best at it.

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