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Thread: Interesting comments on recent increase in wait times at park

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by MinnieUNC View Post
    Wow, what a discussion, it makes my head hurt trying to take it all in. After years (beginning in late 90's) pre-school, then taking our kids out of school for wonderful Disney weeks, no planned ahead days.. or rope-drops, days with no crowds at attractions or in the streets; the ability to pretty-much make our choice of dinner reservations, day of, plus memories of our family riding Space Mt, RNR, etc. 12+ times each, over and over no wait, lots of magical personal attention from cast members, etc. this is all quite depressing. I've told my kids to cherish those truly magical memories, because their (future) kids sadly will never experience anything similar.
    After missing Disney for a few years due to kids being in college (where they can't afford to miss a week of classes)our family's last week-long trip began Jan. 2, 2014. At first, I was a bit overwhelmed pre-planning with the FP+ stuff, but with that whole system being new, at the time only for those staying on-site, we adjusted and it worked well for us.
    This up-coming November trip, kind-of a last minute, birthday surprise trip for me, the whole FP+ reservations (plus dinning reservations) thing has been mostly a fail. We are staying at Pop Century(couldn't..or wouldn't afford our usual, loved POR), and going to be in the parks Nov. 16-20. Josh has the 16th a crowd-level 4, all other days 2's and 3's. We are planning to visit Josh's most recommended park each day, and although months behind most other on-site guests, we did have our on-site reservations/ were able to make FP+ reservations 1 1/2 weeks before off-site guests could get into the FP+ reservation system for those dates. But even before the off-site crowd could choose FP+, there were no FP+ left any of our days for 7 dwarfs, TSMM, plus a few others, and the only ones left for RNR were in the afternoon! Several other available attraction FP+ times were not optimal. Additionally, Nov. 20 is my birthday, so we wanted a sit-down meal (not breakfast)in MK that day, only thing (so far, I will keep checking back) available has been Plaza for a mid-afternoon meal. There's no reservations available any days/times for other favorite restaurants throughout WDW(I wasn't even trying for the most popular, only going to get a ressie if you are on the phone 180 days out, ones.)
    So this is what WDW, and the most recommended parks with crowd level 2's-3's, look like these days??? Very demoralizing. I know we'll have a good time once we're there.. regardless. But with memories of how easy, spontaneous, and truly magical things once were, I hate all the stress of pre-planning, and the disappointment knowing, although staying on-site during a supposedly low-crowd week, we will not be able to experience some of our favorite things, or will most-likely spend long times in line for the opportunity. With the exception of a crazy 4 day trip with my youngest daughter's middle-school, President's week 8 years ago, first time ever, we're planning on making rope-drops, and following plans for our days.
    A lot of people are as bummed as you are.

    I do think it's still very, very possible to have a blast and to experience lots of the great things that WDW has to offer, under your circumstances.

    For dining, a lot of people overbook ADRs, so you should check from 72 to 24 hours before you want a reservation, and ADRs will come open. (They will be snatched up quickly, but if you check a lot, for example on the evening of November 18 and the morning of the 19th, you'll probably find a decent ADR even for the most sought-after table service restaurants.)

    You can definitely re-ride a lot of stuff if you use rope drop. It's certainly not like it once was, but you can easily ride 30 things from 9 am - 7 pm on a party night. Getting in line for Mine Train at 6:59 pm can be a great use of time, and a great way to end the night at MK.

    Hope you have fun and bring back fond memories!

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by patdoc98 View Post
    A lot of people are as bummed as you are.

    I do think it's still very, very possible to have a blast and to experience lots of the great things that WDW has to offer, under your circumstances.

    For dining, a lot of people overbook ADRs, so you should check from 72 to 24 hours before you want a reservation, and ADRs will come open. (They will be snatched up quickly, but if you check a lot, for example on the evening of November 18 and the morning of the 19th, you'll probably find a decent ADR even for the most sought-after table service restaurants.)

    You can definitely re-ride a lot of stuff if you use rope drop. It's certainly not like it once was, but you can easily ride 30 things from 9 am - 7 pm on a party night. Getting in line for Mine Train at 6:59 pm can be a great use of time, and a great way to end the night at MK.

    Hope you have fun and bring back fond memories!
    Reminds me of the days when you could only make dining reservations day-of and my parents would go to that special phone at the front of the park right when we got there to make our dinner reservations for that evening.

  3. #53
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    It would be interesting to know the time that FP+ saves at certain attractions. The meet and greet example before is a good one. If the wait is going to be 10 minutes after the Merge and the standby is posted as 10 minutes then the savings would be 0. Most rides are like Buzz and Safari where the wait after the merge is very little. TT can have a significant wait after the merge to design a car and then wait to load.

  4. #54
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    TT can have a significant wait after the merge to design a car and then wait to load.
    Usually, Disney counts the "standby time" as the time from getting in line to the pre-show. So, they only "count" the time up to (but not including) the car design station.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bnoble View Post
    Usually, Disney counts the "standby time" as the time from getting in line to the pre-show. So, they only "count" the time up to (but not including) the car design station.
    So for a meet & greet, would the standby time be the time from getting in line until you enter the meeting room? We always waited at least 10 minutes once we got into the meeting room for meet & greets, which I personally would count as time waiting not as time "on the attraction."

  6. #56
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    No idea.

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    Sorry to resurrect this thread. Wouldn't 4 parties per week be a huge contributing factor to wait times, even on party days? The parties encourage people to go to other parks AND at the same time cut capacity at MK for the day (the amount of time available for rides and fast passes at MK is reduced). When MK is open late (possible only 1 time on a typical trip), it is jammed. I will be at Magic Kingdom on Nov 17th. Even though its a 3, I predict long waits for me that day. There is a party that night, HS closes in the afternoon, AK has its usual close. That just leaves very little capacity among the 4 parks.

    If Disney reduced parties to 2 times a week during the fall, I think that would open up capacity significantly.

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by lawgman View Post
    Sorry to resurrect this thread. Wouldn't 4 parties per week be a huge contributing factor to wait times, even on party days? The parties encourage people to go to other parks AND at the same time cut capacity at MK for the day (the amount of time available for rides and fast passes at MK is reduced). When MK is open late (possible only 1 time on a typical trip), it is jammed. I will be at Magic Kingdom on Nov 17th. Even though its a 3, I predict long waits for me that day. There is a party that night, HS closes in the afternoon, AK has its usual close. That just leaves very little capacity among the 4 parks.

    If Disney reduced parties to 2 times a week during the fall, I think that would open up capacity significantly.

    This. Exactly. I'm wondering if waits will go back to (somewhat) normal after the party season. This week comes with a brief respite from the parties...if wait times seem to be a bit more tolerable this week, that would be a good sign.
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  9. #59
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    Not sure if anybody caught the Touring Plans series: http://blog.touringplans.com/2015/11...nimal-kingdom/

    One thing that stands out as being goofy right off the bat is the Expedition Everest single rider wait. Has anybody really waited 20+ minutes in single rider? Ever? I was under the impression that there were typically 10-12 people in line.

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    I saw it and am wondering what the point of it is. They keep pointing to charts to show trends but then say there are no trends. In the Epcot portion, they seem to conclude that 60% of the increase in wait times is due to maelstrom closing. The average increase for Soarin from 2014 to 2015 is 5 minutes. They apparently can't figure out what's causing the other 2 minutes of extra wait time. Basically, their data shows that between 10:00 and 5:00 on a select group of attractions, you will wait an additional 2-4 minutes per attraction on average. Considering I'm using FPs at that time or am not even in the park, it really doesn't matter to me. The 2-4 minute increase apparently causes them to see CL 10's when they predicted CL 3's. :)
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    Quote Originally Posted by josh View Post
    Not sure if anybody caught the Touring Plans series: http://blog.touringplans.com/2015/11...nimal-kingdom/

    One thing that stands out as being goofy right off the bat is the Expedition Everest single rider wait. Has anybody really waited 20+ minutes in single rider? Ever? I was under the impression that there were typically 10-12 people in line.
    I was in Epcot on Monday 10/26. At about 4:00 or so, Test Track showed a 60 minute standby wait and a 30 minute singles standby wait. I was surprised at the long posted wait for singles but figured it wouldn't take so long. My wife and I waited and it too a little under 20 minutes to get on.

    TP also showed a longer than normal singles rider wait time for Test Track and Rock n roller coaster. I think Disney is just being more conservative with their singles line wait times, but perhaps more people are reading the recommendations about using the singles lines.

  12. #62
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    Yeah that's why I'm talking about Expedition Everest. You can very easily see how long the line is there, unlike Rock n Roller Coaster when you really have no idea and even with Test Track, you have to physically get in and walk the line to see how long it is. As far as I know, Disney doesn't push single rider wait times to the app, so you'd be relying on what I'm guessing is just a handful of single rider posted waits over the course of any given week. That "data" would be heavily biased depending on when people are most likely to be at the attraction.

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    Quote Originally Posted by josh View Post
    Yeah that's why I'm talking about Expedition Everest. You can very easily see how long the line is there, unlike Rock n Roller Coaster when you really have no idea and even with Test Track, you have to physically get in and walk the line to see how long it is. As far as I know, Disney doesn't push single rider wait times to the app, so you'd be relying on what I'm guessing is just a handful of single rider posted waits over the course of any given week. That "data" would be heavily biased depending on when people are most likely to be at the attraction.
    Agreed. But given the very small number of people in the single rider lines I don't think it had very much of any impact on their analysis. For me, the magic kingdom analysis is the big one. That park has had the largest wait time increases recently, at least ones that aren't easily explained like at HS.

  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3dadknight View Post
    I saw it and am wondering what the point of it is. They keep pointing to charts to show trends but then say there are no trends. In the Epcot portion, they seem to conclude that 60% of the increase in wait times is due to maelstrom closing. The average increase for Soarin from 2014 to 2015 is 5 minutes. They apparently can't figure out what's causing the other 2 minutes of extra wait time. Basically, their data shows that between 10:00 and 5:00 on a select group of attractions, you will wait an additional 2-4 minutes per attraction on average. Considering I'm using FPs at that time or am not even in the park, it really doesn't matter to me. The 2-4 minute increase apparently causes them to see CL 10's when they predicted CL 3's. :)
    This.
    There is no real meaning to the analysis. It's not helpful. Especially looking at averages. Looking at median and peak (dropping outliers for down time etc) wait times would provide more useful information.

    TP also had a group restaurant review a while back where they used a 5 point scale. Another pointless numbers game that doesn't provide much guidance to the reader. Everything was a 3 or 4 with little to differentiate. Garbage in garbage out.

    For a site that supposedly has professional statisticians they seem to miss the point a lot of the time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Anne View Post
    This.
    There is no real meaning to the analysis. It's not helpful. Especially looking at averages. Looking at median and peak (dropping outliers for down time etc) wait times would provide more useful information.

    TP also had a group restaurant review a while back where they used a 5 point scale. Another pointless numbers game that doesn't provide much guidance to the reader. Everything was a 3 or 4 with little to differentiate. Garbage in garbage out.

    For a site that supposedly has professional statisticians they seem to miss the point a lot of the time.
    It goes back to what stevemilz said earlier in this thread about it all being more of an art than a science.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3dadknight View Post
    It goes back to what stevemilz said earlier in this thread about it all being more of an art than a science.
    This. And the their "science" seems to have a lot of loop holes and missing information at that.

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    I don’t get their assessment about Maelstrom. People rode it only after 11am and usually as part of their touring of world showcase. If you take the ride away, the people will just move on to the next pavilion. There can’t possibly be a correlation between Maelstrom and the higher wait times for Soarin in the first hour the park is open.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 3dadknight View Post
    It goes back to what stevemilz said earlier in this thread about it all being more of an art than a science.
    Agreed. But they also can't even seem to get the "science" part right. Scientists are still supposed to be able to look at the data and ask relevant questions. I don't care what the answer is (correct or incorrect) if the initial question isn't relevant.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lawgman View Post
    I don’t get their assessment about Maelstrom. People rode it only after 11am and usually as part of their touring of world showcase. If you take the ride away, the people will just move on to the next pavilion. There can’t possibly be a correlation between Maelstrom and the higher wait times for Soarin in the first hour the park is open.
    Yep. Also, they seem to have forgotten the 5-6 hour waits for A&E at Epcot through April of 2014. They must have assumed that that line was for Maelstrom. :)
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    Quote Originally Posted by josh View Post
    Has anybody really waited 20+ minutes in single rider? Ever? I was under the impression that there were typically 10-12 people in line.
    At the end of April, I waited between 15-20 minutes in the single rider line at EE in the afternoon. Though I was the only one in line older than 17 - so I may have just hit it at a bad time right after a large group of kids.

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    Quote Originally Posted by josh View Post
    Not sure if anybody caught the Touring Plans series: http://blog.touringplans.com/2015/11...nimal-kingdom/

    One thing that stands out as being goofy right off the bat is the Expedition Everest single rider wait. Has anybody really waited 20+ minutes in single rider? Ever? I was under the impression that there were typically 10-12 people in line.
    I know that 2 of my kids waited about 25 minutes in the EE single-rider line one morning in June 2013. My husband and I were standing in the gift shop waiting for them -- thinking it would take 10 minutes. We noticed that the trains were coming in with empty seats -- as if they weren't pulling anyone from the single-rider line. I went outside to see if I could see them in the line somewhere and at that point, they had actually closed the single rider line. The CM standing guard did let me walk into the line just to make visual contact with the kids. I went back to the gift shop and waited. I did notice that the trains were now coming into the unloading station completely full. It took another 15 minutes for the kids to get through the line. I do agree that most of the time, the wait in the single-rider line at EE has been more like 10 minutes.

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    Have they closed the loophole for throwaway rooms yet? If not, then maybe way more people are booking a throwaway room and sucking up all the available fast passes at their 60 day mark? Is it possible this could create a domino effect and cause standby waits to rise on all attractions?

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    Quote Originally Posted by jprice906 View Post
    Have they closed the loophole for throwaway rooms yet? If not, then maybe way more people are booking a throwaway room and sucking up all the available fast passes at their 60 day mark? Is it possible this could create a domino effect and cause standby waits to rise on all attractions?
    There is a finite number of FP+ available for each ride. So it doesn't matter if they're booked at 60 days, 30 days or the day of, it wouldn't change the length of the lines. Just maybe which guest is in those lines.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BeckyW View Post
    There is a finite number of FP+ available for each ride. So it doesn't matter if they're booked at 60 days, 30 days or the day of, it wouldn't change the length of the lines. Just maybe which guest is in those lines.
    Good point - but if all the good FPs are already taken by onsite guests with long stays and guests booking throwaway rooms at the 60 day window then the remaining guests that come searching for FPs after that will only have non-priority FPs left to select from. Then when a FP that might otherwise go unused is used on a non-priority attraction that will increase the standby wait time for that attraction. So maybe there are longer waits because more people are booking throwaway rooms and more people are booking longer stays. I don't know. I guess like Josh said, there is a lot going on ...

  25. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by allgiggles View Post
    I know that 2 of my kids waited about 25 minutes in the EE single-rider line one morning in June 2013. My husband and I were standing in the gift shop waiting for them -- thinking it would take 10 minutes. We noticed that the trains were coming in with empty seats -- as if they weren't pulling anyone from the single-rider line. I went outside to see if I could see them in the line somewhere and at that point, they had actually closed the single rider line. The CM standing guard did let me walk into the line just to make visual contact with the kids. I went back to the gift shop and waited. I did notice that the trains were now coming into the unloading station completely full. It took another 15 minutes for the kids to get through the line. I do agree that most of the time, the wait in the single-rider line at EE has been more like 10 minutes.
    Anything is possible as they say. I'd have to check the pictures, but I waited something like two minutes with 14 people ahead of me in line today around 1:30pm-ish if I remember correctly.

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